Aged Care bonds

Self managed super, DIY superannuation, ATO - taxation

Re: Aged Care bonds

Postby catron » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:35 pm

These bonds have been around for more than a decade but nothing much seems to have been done to date by governments to review and improve their operation. As the article below indicates, the possibility exists for unscrupulous aged care providers to use bonds in ways not intended by parliament. This is not the only aspect of the aged care provisions needing review but whether there will be any follow up action from the current Senate inquiry remains to be seen.

Cheers,
Catron

Aged care bonds to face more scrutiny
Patricia Karvelas, Political correspondent | April 27, 2009
Article from: The Australian
A CRACKDOWN is being planned on aged care providers using lucrative accommodation bonds to cover operating losses or divert money to non-aged care uses.
Currently the income from accommodation bonds, paid by people entering aged care, may be used for capital works, retiring debt and improving aged care services.
Options being prepared by the Department of Health and Ageing for Minister for Ageing, Justine Elliot, say in recent cases aged care providers in financial distress have been using bonds to cover operating losses or possibly diverting them to non-aged care uses.
The department advises that, as of June last year, approved providers held about 58,000 accommodation bonds worth $7.7 billion.
The requirements in the Aged Care Act 1997 "are very general" in relation to using these bonds.
In the options prepared by the department, providers would be held accountable for the subsidies they received through greater levels of reporting to the Government, and providers could be given more obligations under prudential arrangements if they misused money.
The move comes after the department used a Senate committee last week to allege aged care providers may be setting up operations on Norfolk Island, and possibly in other countries, to avoid tax obligations.
In evidence to a Senate inquiry into residential and community aged care, first assistant secretary of ageing, Andrew Stuart, said: "There are particular advantages, there are some structures in the industry ... you can imagine a structure where the domestically taxpaying entities make a loss and the foreign-based body makes substantial profits because of the fees paid to them by the domestic entity.
"Under those circumstances headquarters can make a decent living and less tax can be paid."
Assistant secretary David Cullen said one of Queensland's larger aged care providers, TriCare, was registered on Norfolk Island, an Australian territory.
"It's certainly the case that ... there are six TriCare companies that are approved providers. They are all Australian registered companies but they are all subsidiaries of the TriCare group Pty Ltd which is registered in Norfolk Island."
TriCare chief executive Jim Toohey told The Australian there "are no TriCare operations managed and no TriCare personnel located or employed anywhere other than" at locations in Australia.
"TriCare pays the applicable tax on all income made from its Australian entities. Any inferences or assertions to the contrary are deliberately false and cowardly given the privilege attached to Senate committee testimony.
"This appears to be yet another attempt to silence an aged care provider who, in good faith and at the invitation of the Senate, has presented along with many other providers clear evidence about the crisis in aged care, which incidentally as we have said all along, is not of this Government's making."
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Re: Aged Care bonds

Postby Judd » Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:04 am

Yes, one does wonder if the Government will undertake a more rigorous interest in these bonds. What is not stated, but is implied in previous posts on this subject, is that the accommodation bond is uncapped. Essentially all your hard earned can be handed over to the provider lot as an interest free loan.

If the Senate had any wisdom, bearing in mind that they are politicians, they would also start asking questions on the Capital Grants given to accommodation providers and what happened to the taxpayers' funds which were given to upgrade the fire standards in these homes.

As an aside, if you collect, say, a Tattslotto win, the day before you are assessed on the level of bond you are to pay, these winnings are included in the assessment. So don't claim the prize until the day after you enter the accommodation!
Regards
Judd
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Re: Aged Care bonds

Postby Judd » Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:28 am

[2 and a half years ago]..........What is not stated, but is implied in previous posts on this subject, is that the accommodation bond is uncapped. Essentially all your hard earned can be handed over to the provider lot as an interest free loan.


And it has taken how long for Australia to wake up to that fact?

[3 years ago].........In my simplistic view accommodation bonds should NOT be held by the provider but by an independent trustee similar to the rental bond boards. The total money involved is probably quite large.....


And this as well

http://www.smh.com.au/national/up-to-26 ... 1afjm.html

Up to $2.6m demanded for nursing home places

AGED-CARE residents are paying bonds of more than $2 million to ensure places in sought-after nursing homes - relinquishing tens of thousands of dollars a year more than the amount needed to cover the cost of their care.

The widespread practice of nursing homes extracting bonds from residents well in excess of reasonable charges is officially sanctioned but is raising concerns among public trustees about the surge in the unregulated demands made on vulnerable families seeking beds for frail parents.

In Sydney and Melbourne elderly people are frequently paying more than $1 million for bonds for nursing homes in good suburbs. One Sydney home demands bonds as high as $2.6 million while a Melbourne home sought $750,000 each from an applicant couple, the Productivity Commission has been told.
Advertisement: Story continues below

The commission's report into aged care has called for an end to the present system, saying the bonds often are much higher than actual costs. Bonds held by nursing homes now total $9.1 billion, a figure rising 20 per cent a year in the past five years.

A national body representing public trustees has expressed concern about the ''rapid acceleration'' in the cost of accommodation bonds, which can be demanded from residents seeking low-care accommodation or extra services.

Residents requiring high-level care do not have to pay bonds, a measure that operators say is driving companies to ''cross-subsidise'' by charging the high bonds when they can.

''In NSW one approved provider has set its bond levels at between $500,000 and $2.6 million depending on the floor level and the particular rooms,'' the Australian Guardianship and Administration Council said in a submission to the commission's aged care inquiry.

The council said there appeared to be no independent controls or vetting for reasonableness of bond requests.

''The ability of a consumer to 'negotiate' a bond amount is clearly often questionable at best given the often emotionally charged nature of a consumer's move from home to aged care,'' the council told the inquiry.

The Aged Care Rights Service says it receives six to 10 complaints a week from consumers, and bonds were the ''No.1 issue''.

The service's chief executive, Russell Westacott, said elderly applicants and their families were at a time of crisis, but were often pressured by nursing homes to decide within 24 hours.

Operators would often find out the value of the applicant's home and set the bond accordingly, as the federal rules mean all but $38,500 of the individual's assets can be paid out in bonds.

If the home was valued at $450,000, ''the aged-care home will say, 'Oh yes, the bond will be $400,000.''

Gerard Mansour, the chief executive of the industry group, Aged and Community Care Victoria, said the average bond was ''only $250,000, but as bonds are exempt from the assets test, there are isolated larger bonds''.

Mr Mansour responded on behalf of the RSL's Vasey nursing home in Hawthorn which is believed to have demanded $750,000 each from a couple whose home had been valued at $2.3 million
Regards
Judd
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Re: Aged Care bonds

Postby Disco Stu » Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:45 pm

Hi Judd,

I thought it would be more appropriate to reply here as opposed to the China thread. At the moment we're looking to place my wife's mother in to a low care facility. The result will be that she'll be required to stump up nearly $500k in one of these Bonds, this will deplete her remaining super and require all the capital that is being returned to her from the sale of her retirement home. Furthermore, as noted in the thread, the provider will be likely to take a large part of her pension.

It is just that after reading this thread and what I've been finding out regarding our own investigations am struggling to see what the issue is with these aged care bonds?

Isn't the aged care bonds really the final stage in some peoples investment and financial planning life cycle? I know that it would mean that in some instances it would drain most individuals super balance away, but isn't that the reason why we've got the super there in the first place - as retirement and aged care funds? I know it would be nice to leave a pharonic legacy to our kids, but they're still going to get the residual aged care bond refunded to them as a part of any estate.

As to my wife's mother - she's no longer really capable of utilising her remaining super funds for an expansive retirement lifestyle anyhow - she can no longer travel, her daily expenses are small beyond the medical expenses, for which she still has insurance coverage. Trips to the shops, etc are no longer really possible for her in an unaccompanied state, she can no longer drive...

I suppose the requirement for an aged care bond could cause difficulties for a married couple where one partner requires aged care services and the other doesn't or isn't prepared to move into them yet. As we're finding out the size of the Bond can vary considerably, so for some extent it might be possible to substitute a lower quality facility for a smaller bond, which might leave you with more $ outside the system and not locked up. I agree that there are some concerns re who holds the retirement bond, whether it is held in trust and whether there is any credit quality issues with whoever is holding them.

But are there any other negative things I am missing here? Genuinely interested.
Disco Stu is leaving the building... he can sometimes be found at http://asxsharenerd.wikispaces.com/
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Re: Aged Care bonds

Postby Judd » Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:50 pm

Hi Disco Stu,

Philosophically I see nothing wrong with imposing an aged care bond. It is, as you imply, changing one residence for another so, therefore, you have to sell one in order to buy another. And you have to buy the services you require to live in that new residence.

My main issue is that the bond is uncapped.

As I have stated previously it is effectively an interest-free loan to the facility to fund construction, renovations and other services provided to residents.

I cannot see the justification for levying one person $500,000 and another $2m for that. I know the argument that those with the larger assets are able to cross-subsidise and therefore a larger amount of funds will go towards improving the facilities but it doesn't wash with me. As a business, each facility should have a budget in place for future construction and renovations required over time and develop its accommodation bond charge based on that: not according to the assets held by potential residents

By the way, the current interest rate chargeable on accommodation bonds paid after the due date, periodic payments, and overdue fees under a resident agreement, bond agreement or extra service agreement which are deducted from the accommodation bond balance, is 8.62%. Try getting that rate from a bank. Get the feeling that I believe there is a bit of usury going on, especially when the provider may also invest that money in an approved financial product and also derives income from that?

My other gripe is that the funds, which are becoming rather large, is in the hands of the providers and there are no valid checks as to where those funds are or what they are actually used for. I have never seen a provider driving around in a Datsun 120Y if you get my drift. And as has been seen on many occasions where there are large amounts of funds, the temptation is not far behind. Even happens in the not-for-profit sector unfortunately.

Anyway, that is my take on things. It will only get worse. Where you have money, there is always someone waiting to take it off you.

Now to reply to that kind email from Nigeria offering to reimburse my losses from my deals with one of their fellow countryman. I only have to provide my name, address, telephone number, bank account details, the amount by which I have been defrauded and all will be resolved.
Regards
Judd
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