banks - 4 pillars: CBA, NAB, WBC, ANZ

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Re: banks - 4 pillars: CBA, NAB, WBC, ANZ

Postby Disco Stu » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:16 pm

I believe it wasn't a big issue when Moodys downgraded the big 4 earlier this year, as most credit lending mandates give some leway in downgrades on lending by saying it's okay if 2/3 rating agencies maintain a higher rating.... looks like the other shoe will drop sometime in the next week or so.

More than A$70 billion on issue from 37 banks revised by S&P

Wednesday, 30 November 2011 09:02
The 37 international banks which had their Standard & Poor’s (S&P) ratings revised on November 29 – predominantly for the worse – in line with the agency’s new criteria have more than A$70 billion (US$70.2 billion) on issue in Kangaroo and domestic Australian format according to KangaNews data. They also have more than NZ$2.5 billion (US$1.9 billion) outstanding Kauri and New Zealand domestic bonds.

Among the 37 banks very few of the borrowers active in Australia and New Zealand escaped unscathed, with many of the biggest-issuing names seeing their ratings downgraded by one or two full notches (see table following story).

Australia’s banks were not included in the first clutch of firms to have their ratings reviewed in light of S&P’s new criteria. Market sources believe an announcement on the Australian names is likely to follow in the next week or two – and possibly by December 1 – with the consensus analyst view being that the most likely outcome is a stable single-notch downgrade for the big four from their current level of AA.

However, strategists have suggested the best-case scenario – the Australian majors retaining their AA ratings with a likely outlook revision to negative from stable – is rather less likely than either a downgrade to A+ stable or AA- negative.

http://www.kanganews.com/index.php/news ... ap-ratings
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Re: banks - 4 pillars: CBA, NAB, WBC, ANZ

Postby hybridbloke » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:55 pm

have had some buy and hold cba since they were first made available to the public.

the percentage return on invested capital looks real acceptable. full franked.

the dilema for portfolio construction is that the same conditions that let cba perform hint that others will massively outperform.

dunno. could just borrow against cba as margin loan security and speculate. could reweight. could sell some, buy guns and ammunition. hard calls to be made.
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Re: banks - 4 pillars: CBA, NAB, WBC, ANZ

Postby Disco Stu » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:29 am

Guns and Ammo! Guns and Ammo!

Don't know if I'd be doing anything on a downgrade Hybrid, in the current environment our 4 darlings are still likely to be among the prettiest 4 bush pigs in the global ugly piggy bank competion - just keep an eye on them to make sure they don't become late favorites to win the competion.

Interesting to see the 6 central banks announce that they were getting together to provide liquidity via swap lines - maybe they see the TED spread creeping above 50bpts as some sort of klaxon as well (perhaps they know something we don't know)? Not that the announcement really did much to improve stress in the credit market, as the TED closed at 53bpts last night.... last nights rally could prove to be very short lived if it continues to push higher.

http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/!TEDSP:IND
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Re: banks - 4 pillars: CBA, NAB, WBC, ANZ

Postby jonasson » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:29 pm

Took big parcels of ANZ & WBC off the table today, our banks do look OK, but the point is,

will you be able to buy them back cheaper (much cheaper) in the months to come.

By months, it could be years to come.

Too much risk worldwide, no good stories at all, Europe is stuffed by all accounts, USA stalled at best.

The financial system is a mess, and we will be affected.

Retain small holdings of NAB & CBA, and much WHF, so retain enough exposure.

Would lighten WHF too if I could!

Have a read of the first page or so of this thread, as I'm doing, with a glass of Coopers Vintage ale.
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Re: banks - 4 pillars: CBA, NAB, WBC, ANZ

Postby Judd » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:04 am

It is really funny, at least I think so. Interest rates were reduced in the face of the GFC MK I, the Government liked this to save the country from recession, RE industry went berserk with a "buy, buy" approach, lenders obliged, punters flocked in (with increased FHBG). And now it turns to shite, the lenders are at fault.

Tell you what, lets make the lending standard that you can only get a home loan if you have a 20% deposit and display a savings regime. In addition, a cast iron guarantee from the applicant(s) is required that they will (a) be employed for the next 30 years (b) will never get sick, divorced, fired, or suffer any financial tragedy (c) will never have children due to the cost or if they do, prove how they are to raise the child(ren), pay off the debt and save the planet all at once.

This country is becoming stuffed.

Banks face home loan suit
Chris Vedelago
January 15, 2012

AUSTRALIA'S banks could be facing a massive new class action over allegations that their mortgage lending practices have put thousands of families in severe financial stress or at risk of losing their homes.

Organisers estimate that up to 300,000 mortgage holders would be eligible to participate in the action, which is expected to focus on first home buyers and lower-income households who received loans since the onset of the global financial crisis.

The proposed lawsuit has drawn qualified support from law firm Maurice Blackburn, which is already engaged in the country's largest class action over alleged fee gouging by the big banks.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/business/banks ... z1jTbif3TN
Regards
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Re: banks - 4 pillars: CBA, NAB, WBC, ANZ

Postby benthonic » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:43 pm

Judd wrote:This country is becoming stuffed.

Banks face home loan suit
Organisers .... from law firm Maurice Blackburn,

ambulance chasers. Zombies. Parasites

USA disease.. and the nanny state allows it (for them a virtuous circle, for most the spiral of doom)
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Re: banks - 4 pillars: CBA, NAB, WBC, ANZ

Postby robert garden » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:28 am

not a bad idea if some of the young turks needed to have 20% deposit and a saving program before they get a home loan ....instead of getting their SUV and BOAT and MOTOR BIKE and all the other trinkets first ..
Then they want a 100% homeloan ...before they snatch the baby bonus and fill the house with 2 year interest free chattels

Very sad and this is what Aust encourages ....Feral :evil:
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Re: banks - 4 pillars: CBA, NAB, WBC, ANZ

Postby Judd » Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:26 am

robert garden wrote:not a bad idea if some of the young turks needed to have 20% deposit and a saving program before they get a home loan ....instead of getting their SUV and BOAT and MOTOR BIKE and all the other trinkets first ..
Then they want a 100% homeloan ...before they snatch the baby bonus and fill the house with 2 year interest free chattels

Very sad and this is what Aust encourages ....Feral :evil:


Yeah but who would listen to fuddy-duddy has-beens such as us?

Mind you, the young couple over the road have their heads screwed on properly; 10-year plan to get rid of mortgage, 12-year old car, second-hand goods only apart from replacing broken whitegoods, a lot of DIY when funds allow, gardening, building an "emergency" fund. As the young lass told me "We live a simple life and don't need anything beyond that." They are bright and aware. I suspect both hold Ph.D's.
Regards
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Re: banks - 4 pillars: CBA, NAB, WBC, ANZ

Postby benthonic » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:47 am

<GS> Retaining a Neutral rating on banks

We retain a Neutral rating on the banks Coverage Group given the following factors:
1. ROE and earnings momentum neutral: Whilst we see near term earnings pressure for the sector plus consensus expectations heading into 1H12/ 1Q12 results, offsets are available from tighter cost management and repricing efforts. As such, we think banks can sustain ROEs in the mid/high teens.
2. Negative news catalysts: as 1Q12E and 1H12E results deliver cautionary commentary around near term earnings growth.
3. Positive industry structure: with continued reduction in competition from offshore and non-bank players aiding any asset repricing efforts.
4. Positive valuation metrics: with the sector trading on a 1 year forward PER of 10.4x a 16% discount to 10 year average and 1 year forward P/BV range of 1.3x – 2.1x versus ROE of 15.5% - 18.5%.

CBA least preferred amongst the majors
Our sector preference amongst the major banks remains NAB, ANZ, WBC followed by CBA.
- CBA remains our least preferred given (1) expensive valuation, (2) risks to consensus earnings expectations and (3) strategic uncertainty with the new CEO. From a valuation perspective, CBA is trading on an FY12 PER of 12.0x, a 25% premium to major bank peers, and offers the lowest dividend yield of the major banks at only 6.5%.

- NAB and ANZ remain our preferred major bank exposures given (1) superior franchise momentum, (2) undemanding valuations and (3) potential upside to returns longer-term from NAB’s exposure to a recovery in business lending and ANZ’s Institutional build-out.
BOQ preferred over BEN amongst the regionals

- Looking at regional banks relative to their major bank peers, we see near term risk given their industry positions implies greater downside risk from funding market dislocation and deposit competition. In addition, we would expect the regional banks to be more heavily impacted by the impending change to the deposit guarantee scheme. Our Sell rating on BEN is supported by this cautious earnings outlook for regionals vs major bank peers.
That said, we retain our Buy recommendation on BOQ for stock-specific reasons.
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Re: banks - 4 pillars: CBA, NAB, WBC, ANZ

Postby Judd » Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:13 pm

I had a bit of a giggle at this article.

I must be getting friggin' old. More and more, I am finding finance journalism and various prognostications by experts and the not-so-expert (I include myself in the latter) to be bizarre. Perhaps I should simply ignore the whole lot, go my own way, just let it happen and enjoy my life which, fortunately for me at least, does not entirely revolve around money.

Banks' could pull back on home loans
Gareth Hutchens
February 7, 2012

BANKS could become more cautious on lending to new home owners after making losses on mortgages written over the past four months, according to the latest banking industry research.

As the Reserve Bank considers whether to cut rates today, a report from UBS Securities said higher wholesale funding costs and intense competition to write new home loans had left Australia's banks facing a ''dangerous situation'', with little incentive to offer new mortgages.

This followed a warning from Moody's rating agency that Australia's banking system was ''most vulnerable'' to financial and economic shocks from the euro-area crisis.
Advertisement: Story continues below

Economists widely tip the RBA to cut rates by a quarter percentage point today after retail sales figures yesterday showed trade grew at its slowest pace in 50 years in December, despite interest rate cuts in November and December. [Well, you got THAT one wrong, chaps - Judd]

Jonathan Mott, a banking analyst from UBS and author of the report, said banks would be left with a difficult choice if the RBA did cut rates today: they could pass on the full RBA cut in the hope of wholesale funding markets improving; they could reprice the interest rate on new mortgages above the official cash rate; or they could stop writing new mortgages.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/money/borrowin ... z1lfK8AHlj
Regards
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Re: banks - 4 pillars: CBA, NAB, WBC, ANZ

Postby Disco Stu » Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:41 pm

Interesting article Judd, another example of what I was sort of talking about in the "Articles of Interest" thread, in terms of the dissuasion towards LT lending when ST interest rates get so low. What was interesting for me today, was listening to a member of an internal business within the bank complain about its banker (Treasury ie banker to the bank). All internal Bank businesses have to fund themselves, beyond whatever risk capital is allocated to their business, and most do so by borrowing from Treasury.

The problem they find themselves in is identical to the mortgage business, basically they're investment horizons are getting compressed down into the short duration area of the market, as the cost of funds for anything much more than a year or two vs the possible return available from the market, is simply too great. So basically the business that is involvde in taking trading positions with respect to credit instruments, can't operate - they're essentially reduced to the functional role of a sea-gull, standing on the sidelines waiting to pick up a scrap here and there in terms of a miss-priced security or a forced seller having to exit the market.

A recent example would be the CBA and WBC covered bonds issuance, a long term product that due to the stresses in the credit market at the time they were issued were arguably misspriced ie excessively cheap. They should have presented a ST trading opportunity for a credit trading business that believed the credit stress in the market was excessive and due for a pullback (even if only temporarily), which they couldn't act upon, because they were unable to cover the treasury funding charge for a LT asset, even if they only held if for a short period of time (if I understand the gist of this guys complaint properly).

Anyhow, expect to see more of these sort of articles the longer rates stay so low - why lend long, when you can park short without any duration risk. Earning -2% a year in real terms in an overnight deposit, is still preferable to buying a LT 10 or 30year bond and waking up one day to find interest rates have spiked 3 or 4% and you've lost half your dough.
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Re: banks - 4 pillars: CBA, NAB, WBC, ANZ

Postby Judd » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:18 pm

Saw that CBA had an increase in profit and dividend ($1.37 ff).

I have no mortgage or debt but I am a bit confused. I just do not understand what people want from the banking system.

Now in my day - remove dentures (false), bend forward with creaking back (true), look down on the young 'uns with bleary eyes (partially true) - you borrowed money from a bank, knew that you has to pay it back, knew that the interest rates could go up or down, and just got on with it.

What the F is the problem with them making a profit? Yes, it is large but so are the banks. Sheese, the speed of light is seemingly fast but in the context of 20,000 light years it is awfully slow.

I'm going to attempt to tune out. Cannot be bothered with the public anymore. At least (hopefully) no one in this country is dying of hunger as happened 80 years ago. After a voluntary abstinence of a few months a bottle of red is in order.

Pffft on 'em all.
Regards
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