Retirement Incomes

Self managed super, DIY superannuation, ATO - taxation

Re: Retirement Incomes

Postby Judd » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:21 am

An article, the contents of which could send shivers down the spine of those in suburbia.

As an aside, I no longer contribute to super and my wife has ceased her salary sacrifice arrangements to super. She continues to contribute an after tax 5% of income to her employer fund. Rationale is that, all things being equal, we decided that we have more than enough in retirement assets. Nevertheless, we will continue to invest outside of super to mitigate the possibility of legislative risk and, more importantly, it's fun.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/bu ... 18,00.html

Political meddling with retirement funds

Tim Blue | July 30, 2009
Article from: The Australian

PERHAPS one day politicians will turn away from raiding our retirement money, and no one will be more surprised than Michael Rice, a man with his actuary's eye on politicians and honey pots.

"I accept that Wayne Swan has a mega deficit to deal with," says Rice, a director of actuarial consultants RiceWarner and a longtime superannuation expert.

"What we see is another example -- you might say the 26th in a row -- of politicians playing with the system.

"It's unfortunate, as it means the broader changes we need have been ignored in the focus on the huge budget deficit."

Wayne Swan let slip a few bombshells on budget night to do with how we live the last years of our lives, and while Kevin Rudd has since claimed we can get hold of our super before 67, there's much suspicion on what might pop out from the Harmer Pension Review and the Henry Retirement Income Report later this year.

For starters, how do you like the idea of counting the family home in your asset pile? Or having to spend everything before you get a cent of the pension?

Politicians will choke at such heresies, and there's not much enthusiasm among professionals for the other ideas so far bandied about in the preliminary papers.

"Well written academic studies with some good findings," says Rice, "but lacking in vision and not delivering any material reform."

We are right to be worried about more rule changes in super he says; the trust is gone.

So should we have any money at all in the system?

"Super is still a good thing, in that it is the only tax-preferred way to save in Australia. Leave it in a bank account, for example, and you pay tax on the interest at your marginal rate.

"This is harsh compared to other countries, which encourage all forms of savings.

"For example, the UK gives tax breaks to individuals on savings and investment accounts and the USA taxes dividends at a concessional rate, but we have none of that."

Saving for one's retirement is without doubt a virtuous act: it means you have more to spend at the time and will free a minute slice -- collectively, a whole cake -- of the government's money for other good work.

But there are issues: paying the compulsory 9 per cent of your salary over a working life will really not be enough.

Rice is critical of the government's actions, which make it harder to build super. "In times past, people paid off their mortgage first then turned to building their super, sometimes by plonking in the equivalent of their mortgage payments and starting a transition-to-retirement arrangement so they could keep their take-home pay about the same.

"Now you can't; the cap is $25,000 if you want to enjoy the tax concessions involved.

"Someone who is 45 now and tries to build super in a hurry at that age will have a struggle to get it up to reasonable levels.

"People will start looking to do things differently.

"A middle-income person might say 'I am going to put 12 per cent into super -- the compulsory bit plus 3 per cent of my own money -- but above that I might go and buy an investment property and pay that off over 20 years'."

Listening hard, one can almost imagine Ken Henry saying of super what he said of the big stimulus: "Go early, go hard, get the kids."

That's shorthand for encouraging people to start super as early as possible to make it work.

"Treasury says 9 per cent is enough," says Rice, "provided you start young, say 25 onwards, and plan on picking up $24,000 a year in an age pension. Add in, say, $10,000 a year from super and you might think that's enough to live on at $35,000 a year.

"But it won't be terribly exciting -- not much overseas travel and not much eating out.

"Maybe when we are sedentary and sitting in a retirement home with a bad back and when going to Sunday lunch at the RSL Club is a big day out, then it might be, but not in the active retirement years before that."

As an aside, the 9 per cent compulsory super is not really 9 per cent -- you lose a bit in tax going in, so the contribution rate is actually 7.65 per cent; it takes that much longer to build a pile.

Rice suggests that if you really want to live comfortably, put in 12-15 per cent a year, for 40 years.

As another tip, pick up the government's co-contributions. Those earning less than $31,920 a year can put in $1000 a year and the government will add another $1000.

For those earning more, the government will pay something but it reduces to nil on income of $61,920.

Start young and it will build over time.

And get all your insurance through super, too -- the premiums are tax-deductible.

Rudd's declaration that he won't push back the retirement age for taking super to 67 is welcomed by Rice, but he is wary.

It shouldn't happen anyway, Rice says, as all it would do is grow the disabled class on a disability pension. "Lifting the retirement age means you will get more people, mainly men, who will be on a disability pension after a lifetime of arduous physical work -- skilled tradesmen and farmers, for example. Disability pensions are already going out to 200,000 men aged between 55 and 65 -- that's one in six."

Super is still worth having. "Work out how much you need to save for the lifestyle you want. Agree between you and the boss that you put in 12 per cent of your salary, tops, and in the meantime, think about working part-time between 55 and 65. If you are worried about future changes to the rules (and there will be more), then diversify by taking on other savings -- for example, an investment property.

"This way you have all bases covered, with the flexibility to move -- to step around any government ram raids on your retirement money."

Political priorities abound in the government's policies. Super could have been left untouched if Rudd had ditched the former government's promised tax cuts, as had been suggested by shadow treasurer Joe Hockey.

Yet there is one elephant in the room that the politicians talk about in whispers: counting the family home when it comes to determining eligibility for the age pension.

The idea was aired -- with scant detail -- in a strategic issues paper released with the budget. Broadly speaking, if your home is worth $1.2 million, the first million might not be counted, but the remaining $200,000 might be deemed to be earning a bank account level of interest and nudge down your pension.

The economic rationalists might love the idea, but it won't play at all well in the suburbs.
Regards
Judd
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Re: Retirement Incomes

Postby LainieJean » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:20 am

An interesting point raised recently is that the loss of tax revenue to concessional super contributions is almost as much as the current cost to the govt of the age pension. (From memory $32b in lost tax mainly benefiting the top 5% of income earners and $37b in old age pension payments).

Since around 85% of over 65's get either a full or part pension the govt would actually save a huge amount of money by scrapping the super concessions altogether and just paying everyone the pension without any means testing.

This would have flow on effects as well. Pensioners would no longer cling to assets-test-exempt homes which are too large for them, the convoluted schemes where pensioners artificially reduce their income and assets would evaporate, capital would be invested more efficiently, and Centrelink would no longer waste time checking and recording pensioners assets and income so they would have more resources available to actually assist people.


Cheers

LJ
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Re: Retirement Incomes

Postby Judd » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:43 pm

LainieJean wrote:.....the convoluted schemes where pensioners artificially reduce their income and assets would evaporate.....


Agree with the concepts especially this one. As a young public servant in the then Department of Social Security, my job was to examine the applications for age pensions. I was aghast at the extent that people would deprive themselves of assets and incomes (some amounts in the high tens of thousands) just to get a paltry pension and a meager $3,000 or so of associated benefits. Was amazing.
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Judd
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Re: Retirement Incomes

Postby Judd » Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:28 pm

Not about retirement income as such but it does touch on it "going forward" as those analysts are wont to say. Wife and I crunched some numbers last weekend. Seems we have sorta, kinda, like reached a turning point with our income. Did some long tots: anyone besides me remember doing those? The dividends from this reporting season, including those amounts yet to be paid, have covered our annual major household costs, such as rates, insurance, rego and stuff like that.

I know it is silly for an adult to feel this way but I'm really chuffed. Totally passive income. No moving of pallets of beer to earn it, no false greetings to customers (familiar faces who are polite are a different matter). Less strain on the salary income. All that. Must think about setting up a discrete account to receive dividends, remove them from our general funds and progressively move relevant payments across to that account.

I think I see the light but it is probably a friggin great freight train coming straight at me out of the tunnel.
Regards
Judd
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Re: Retirement Incomes

Postby Judd » Fri May 21, 2010 3:40 pm

Judd wrote:I think I see the light but it is probably a friggin great freight train coming straight at me out of the tunnel.


And it was.

Mulling things over, enough is simply enough.

My wife was a member of the CSS. As a result, as her beneficiary, I will receive 67% of the pension she would have received, based on her final superannuation salary, as if she had retired at the age of 65. I've calculated that if a single person, or indeed a couple, cannot live reasonably well on around $650 per week after tax then they cannot budget. Plus there is a lump sum associated in addition to the payout from the group to which she directed her salary sacrifice. Over and above that I am also a deferred member of the CSS. And we currently have holdings outside of super which provide an additional source of income.

Nope, it will all be out of super. I've already had contact from her superannuation provider suggesting planning about tax effectiveness. Not interested. I can achieve that, and probably put the funds to better use, by simply transferring money to my preferred charities in the first week of June each year (Vinnies/Anglicare, look out for some dosh in your account. Kiva will not be forgotten and I don't care if those moneys are never repaid.)

My brain is about ready to explode and, to avoid taking any medication, I shall soon go for a gentle bike ride for an hour or so. After which, I will withdraw $40 from the account, leave my credit and debit cards at home, head off to the local tavern for an evening meal (I do not feel like cooking for myself tonight,) a couple of wines and then home to watch the footy. And tomorrow the Sun shall rise and it will be another day.

Sorry for the ramble but it is somewhat cathartic.
Regards
Judd
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Re: Retirement Incomes

Postby Judd » Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:59 pm

My fellow Australians never fail to astound me. At the link below, referenced by benthonic in the Peak Food thread (peak-food-4941-36.html) there is the statement of the bleeding obvious in the article that due to the floods, food prices will increase. Well, I suppose if farmers lose their crops, flocks of sheep and herds of cattle drown plus a lot of infrastructure has been wiped out and needs to be reconstructed, it is reasonable to expect that there will be an effect on prices.

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/weath ... 19gar.html

Shout Hallelujah brother because I have heard that various pensioner associations have put their noses down towards the public trough asking that an "adjustment" be made to cover the anticipated increase in food costs. I have heard of rise and fall clauses in building contracts but it is the first I have heard of a request for a rise and fall (without the fall I bet you) component in the calculation of pension incomes due to what we hope is a temporary aberration. But let us go further. On equity grounds that should mean that everyone's income should be adjusted in someway to accommodate this situation. Yeah, right, that's sure not to happen.

Deep breaths, Judd, and count to ten - very slowly.
Regards
Judd
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Re: Retirement Incomes

Postby Judd » Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:08 am

I wondered when some pundit would suggest that all risk has to be removed from superannuation and that the Guvment (ie taxpayers) should underwrite downturns. And here it is. There are some valid points in the article but at the back of my mind runs the words Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy, possibly France, Ireland, Britain.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politi ... 1iq5e.html

Time to protect super from market mayhem
Charles Purcell
August 12, 2011

The government forces us to have compulsory super, so they must provide some guarantees we will get a return rather than leave it to the mercy of the markets.

The sharemarket fluctuations have played havoc with the nation's superannuation balances. According to reports — which are rapidly becoming out of date with each further day — at least half of all the earnings for super in the past year have been wiped out, most of the loss coming in the past few weeks. It has been a particularly painful experience for the average person to watch the money they have so painstakingly accumulated over the past year being rapidly eroded by the whims of the stockmarket.

Of particular concern is how superannuation's exposure to the sharemarket makes all our retirement money vulnerable. Compared with other international super funds, Australian super funds appear too heavily weighted with shares both local and domestic.

Given the likelihood that we will remain vulnerable to rapid changes in fortune beyond our control, I think it's time that the government makes us a promise: that the return on our superannuation must equal or exceed the amount generated if that money had been invested in a term deposit or similar financial instrument.
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As super is compulsory and we have no choice but to contribute, the government should offer we, the people, protection akin to the guarantee it gave to protect bank deposits during the GFC. It should not privatise the profits and socialise the losses. If we are to be part of its grand experiment, if it removes our democratic right to spend our money as we see fit, then it should guarantee the results. If the sharemarket has a shocker two or three years just before we retire, the government should make up any fall below that bank figure. Because there are a lot of other things people could be doing with that money; and the enterprising among us might be able to make a better rate of return than what super currently offers.

I would like to see more inventive thinking regarding super in general. Singapore's super system allows people to buy houses using their super; why can't we do something similar here? It is very hard already for people not in the housing market to save up a deposit while some 10 per cent of available savings are being sucked away somewhere else. Why not make that super available at least in part for housing? That might alleviate the modern phenomenon of people only being able to pay off their houses when they finally access their super in retirement. It seems unjust for such a large some to be locked away for the majority of ours lives, enriching managers who get paid despite their performance.

It has long been time that the world economy was decoupled from the capricious whirlwind of the international sharemarket, but even after the first GFC and the devastation on Wall Street, little seems to have been done. Of particular use might have been a small transaction tax on each share sale or purchase - something infinitesmal for the average person who might sell shares every few months or a year, but a definite deterrence to brokerage houses and their computerised systems that make many thousands of sales and purchases a day, adding more instability to the world financial system. Some have suggested that the funds raised from such a worldwide transaction tax could be used for overseas aid, combating poverty worldwide or fighting climate change. Once shares were for the purpose of raising money for companies to get started or grow their business — now they're largely the tools of speculators who make money on tiny margins of advantage. But I digress.

Superannuation is a great idea. And as industry figures say, you should look at the long term results and not panic. But I reckon the average person deserves the same safety net as those Wall Street banks who got a bailout during the first GFC. And a guarantee that super will match or exceed the same result derived from bank deposits is a nice start. Because the modern generation has never been given a choice about that compulsory 9 per cent.
Regards
Judd
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